View Full Version : Harry Potter and the Wrong Name of the Book. *HUGE SPOILERS OF THE ENTIRE BOOK!!*
clone
07-18-2005, 03:22 PM
Just finished reading and in the interest of not retyping everything I just wrote, this is copied from my livejournal.
Anyways, the entire book from the beginning had laid out what we thought was going to happen and of course Harry had his little theories as to what was going on. What was totally insane was that in the end, instead of things going beserk, yet everything being ok, everything went entirely wrong.
The last like 200 pages or so I was so engulfed in, I probably read it all in about 2 hours or less. Since, I don't want to write it all out...
Snape should have died... I felt awful for Dumbledore... The whole series is never going to be the same... The Half Blood Prince's identity was probably the biggest slap in the face... EVER.
And now my theory which is probably SUPER right. Harry is the last Horcrux. Voldemort's death spell never left a mark until Harry. The only reason he was defeated then was not because Harry had some Super magic... BUt because Voldemort had finally used the whole of his soul and had to regenerate with one of the halves. So you see, Harry has to destroy himself eventually because he has part of Voldemort in him. They've been saying it all along. How else could he speak Parsel? I bet everyone who reads this ONE MILLION dollars by next year I am right
Scythe
07-18-2005, 03:32 PM
No.
Ending = everybody dies spontaneously, for no apparent reason, twice.
gmpilot
07-18-2005, 03:58 PM
Yeah, that would defeat the purpose of having a sad ending here. And I knew dumbledore was going to die in this book long before I read it. It was quite lead up to with all the talk of "not fearing death" and I knew harry potter would have to face voldemort definitely without dumbledore's help. I think this was the best written book of the whole series: it made everything fit together. It was realistic. It explained things well. I honestly think Snape and Dumbledore knew it was going to resort to this, and I still think Snape is on the good side. Dumbledore doesn't fear death.
Also, big theme of the series is that people aren't inherently bad. Just look in this book: the big difference between harry and voldemort is love. Lupin's a werewolf and yet accepted. Bill's scarred yet accepted. Plenty of other examples, but I'm sure you can think of them yourself, lol. Harry Potter will not die just because he has some of Voldemort's powers. Also, your theory makes no sense because if Harry is the horcrux, then why did voldemort CONTINUE to try to kill harry all throughout the books.
clone
07-18-2005, 04:24 PM
The only reason he was trying to kill him is because Voldemort has/had like seven more if he needed them. I have a feeling his plot was to turn Harry into a Hrocrux so that no matter what happened, he, Voldemort would still be the last one standing. Unfortunately for him I thikn he didn't realize you can't spread your soul that much and kinda faded, having to resort to another half because he just gave the last one away.
It kinda seems it was alluded to the entire series. How else would they be connected like that? How could Harry know Parseltongue? Remember Dumbledore's speech about it being dangerous to put a horcrux in a living thing capable of free will and choice? It all kinda seemed obvious to me.
Definately though, anyone else think that this was the Empire Strikes Back of the Harry Potter series?
dfacto
07-18-2005, 04:28 PM
I've only seen the first movie, so can someone tell me what the deal with Snape is? Is he good, evil, or is he just Trent Reznor?
Also, what happened to that rival kid?
Jeanox
07-18-2005, 04:48 PM
I ate him. *burps*
gmpilot
07-18-2005, 04:53 PM
Yeah, I think this was the "empire strikes back" of the series. But I loved it. I thought it was awesome. I also don't think that was a speech really when he was saying it's dangerous to put one in a living thing. I think it was just...common sense, lol. I mean living things die, and I'm sure would conflict with whatever other soul is in it.
*edit* and empire strikes back is my favorite star wars movie.
if harry kills himself there would be like a mass suicide of teenage girls all over england
rival kid? my mom was very angry at the ending but its been pretty awesome so far. 5 chapters from the end now XD i have my ownb theories about the final whore christ whatever its called. or rather who it will turn out to be but i guess i shoudl jsut read the rest before i go on about it :)
Lexar
07-18-2005, 06:10 PM
I remember there was a fake harry potter released in china presented as the actual sequel, and in it, he was permanently transformed into a hairy dwarf. I remember the faces of the little crying chinese kids :D So awesome!
HP sux.
gmpilot
07-18-2005, 07:05 PM
I remember there was a fake harry potter released in china presented as the actual sequel, and in it, he was permanently transformed into a hairy dwarf. I remember the faces of the little crying chinese kids :D So awesome!
HP sux.
You sux.
clone
07-18-2005, 10:33 PM
I've only seen the first movie, so can someone tell me what the deal with Snape is? Is he good, evil, or is he just Trent Reznor?
Also, what happened to that rival kid?
Snape is very much, as he proved as he killed Dumbledore, evil and on Voldemort's side.
Malfoy, the rival, is also working for Voldemort, but only under the premise that he will kill Malfoy's entire family if he doesn't. Malfoy also let the Death Eater's (Voldemort's goons) into the school. He's a filthy shithead, make no mistake, but I have a feeling working for Voldemort was not in his itinerary.
gmpilot
07-18-2005, 11:11 PM
Snape is very much, as he proved as he killed Dumbledore, evil and on Voldemort's side.
Malfoy, the rival, is also working for Voldemort, but only under the premise that he will kill Malfoy's entire family if he doesn't. Malfoy also let the Death Eater's (Voldemort's goons) into the school. He's a filthy shithead, make no mistake, but I have a feeling working for Voldemort was not in his itinerary.
JKR is not going to spend 5 books proving snape is good when everybody thought he was bad, and then suddenly make him actually bad proving that first impressions are always right and destroying potential world peace and equality, lol. Over and over again she proves that what people think of somebody is not always true, such as hagrid, such as hermione, such as ron, such as harry potter, such as lupin, such as the centaurs, and a million other examples. Why would she ruin that all with him killing dumbledore? The reason he looked angry and disgusted was because dumbledore was begging him to kill him. The death eaters had no idea that he was a double spy, and so there were a few choices. First, snape doesn't kill dumbledore, tries to attack the death eaters. He dies, dumbledore dies, the order loses a spy and its information source. If he killed dumbledore, a person who REPEATEDLY said that he wasn't afraid of death, then he saves the whole cause. He had to make a choice, and I think he made a right one. On top of that, if he knew harry potter was there, he saved his life too.
AfterDarkAngel
07-18-2005, 11:41 PM
Snape is very much, as he proved as he killed Dumbledore, evil and on Voldemort's side.
Well Snape really had no choice in the manner, he made an Unbreakable Vow to Darco’s mother that he would watch over Draco and if need be compete his mission. So really he had to do it otherwise suffer his own death for not fulfilling the vow. So I am hoping that there is a plan to this, a reason and he is on the side of good.
I agree that JK would’nt have built up Snape so much to appear good and the just have him turn like that. But then again she might have.
{EDIT} oh and the book was really good. But I think the fourth is still my fav.
Krasnoznamonec
07-18-2005, 11:47 PM
So if this was "Empire Strikes Back" of the series. Then we should expect one more good book and 3 utter **** books in 20 or so years.
Harry Potter before Harry Potter was ever written.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1563890828/ref=pd_sim_b_6/002-1101123-1440847?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
kind of suspicious that years before J.K. Rowling even writes her book there is a book with a youngish kid with funny glasses living with a crummy family who learns about magic, has an owl and does all that shit.
*http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1563890828.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
*(a couple of the comic covers are illustrated by Jon Foster 8D )
Krasnoznamonec
07-19-2005, 12:38 AM
I don't find that funny. I find that to be ripoff.
gmpilot
07-19-2005, 01:03 AM
Hell, she pulled it off better than the original person apparently, so she deserves credit for what she did. It's not like she's riding on the fame of the original book.
is it about him going to wizard school? If not then its probably not that similair of a story, harry potter seems to revolve around hogwartz
clone
07-19-2005, 01:37 AM
JKR is not going to spend 5 books proving snape is good when everybody thought he was bad, and then suddenly make him actually bad proving that first impressions are always right and destroying potential world peace and equality, lol. Over and over again she proves that what people think of somebody is not always true, such as hagrid, such as hermione, such as ron, such as harry potter, such as lupin, such as the centaurs, and a million other examples. Why would she ruin that all with him killing dumbledore? The reason he looked angry and disgusted was because dumbledore was begging him to kill him. The death eaters had no idea that he was a double spy, and so there were a few choices. First, snape doesn't kill dumbledore, tries to attack the death eaters. He dies, dumbledore dies, the order loses a spy and its information source. If he killed dumbledore, a person who REPEATEDLY said that he wasn't afraid of death, then he saves the whole cause. He had to make a choice, and I think he made a right one. On top of that, if he knew harry potter was there, he saved his life too.
Wow, I actually never thought of it that way... In fact... That's awesome. It makes perfect sense. He was disgusted because he was beggin him to kill him.... And then he was screaming at Harry not to call him a coward! Oh man, he was pissed because Harry was calling him a coward when he just did something that greatly pained him! Awesome theory man! That's awesome!
I still think I'm right about the horcrux thing though....
Bloodstar
07-19-2005, 09:59 AM
I just finished the book and I agree with everything ADA said.
Hell, she pulled it off better than the original person apparently, so she deserves credit for what she did. It's not like she's riding on the fame of the original book.
It's penned by Niel Gaiman. If you're going to say J.R. is a better writer than Gaiman, then you need to get a brain scan.
is it about him going to wizard school? If not then its probably not that similair of a story, harry potter seems to revolve around hogwartz
I don't think it is, but asthetically, it is a total ripoff. It's like she started with the premise of the Books of Magic, then made her own story. It's still pretty blatant in how she ripped it off and anyone can see that.
However, it doesn't diminish that whatever she does, she still writes a story millions of people love, and you cna't take that away.
gmpilot
07-19-2005, 01:16 PM
I just realized this thread is called the order of the phonix and not the half-blood prince, lol!
flare60
07-19-2005, 03:36 PM
I don't think it is, but asthetically, it is a total ripoff. It's like she started with the premise of the Books of Magic, then made her own story. It's still pretty blatant in how she ripped it off and anyone can see that.
However, it doesn't diminish that whatever she does, she still writes a story millions of people love, and you cna't take that away.
Oh come on lay off it, the story in the books of magic ARE nothing like harry potter at all, sure she migth have been inspired by the covers, or it migth just be a complete coincidence. The character portrayed as a looser with glasses IS NOTHING NEW, you find the same character in TONS of other stories about magic, monsters, and so on.
Based on that i wouldnt call it a rip off at all, before that series the books of magic were created there already were others wich just as similar character descriptions.
Jeanox
07-19-2005, 03:44 PM
gmpilot: me too, lol.
someone1074
07-20-2005, 02:15 PM
yea its too bad I realized it just now...as I was reading his post I was only thinking to myself "man...I know its been a LONG time since I read Order of the Phoenix...but Dumbledore dying...Snape publicly admitting his allegiance to Voldemort...how could I forget something like that."
...nice job jackass...
*starts reading Half-Blood Prince*
clone
07-20-2005, 02:48 PM
Yeah, sorry. I didn't realize the repercussions of that mistake until just now... I apologize to everyone, though in all fairness it's not really normal to start and Order topic when the new book just came out.
Zabur
07-20-2005, 03:05 PM
I'm glad I've only read the second page, lol.
I'm still reading it.
gmpilot
07-20-2005, 03:07 PM
Lol. I expected what happened anyways.
someone1074
07-20-2005, 04:47 PM
lol, no worries. I was kinda curious why a topic like this was started now, but I attributed it to several reasons.
1) u just finished order in order to better understand Half-Blood and wanted to discuss
2) with the release of the new book, ANYTHING regarding HP would be discussed on forums across the internet
3) I wanted to reinforce some stuff I read that far back, so that topic seemed perfect for me to relearn the major points from the last book
but its cool, no hard feelings. For some reason I wasn't all that shocked...thankfully I'm sure there'll be a much larger plot-twist later in the book...heh...here's hopin.
Krieock
07-20-2005, 06:44 PM
Well, I finished the book the night after it came out... and all I want to know is: Who is R.A.B.???? A character yet to be introduced? or someone else?
Did anyone hear about that woman who went in a RiteAid and bought a copy of The Half-Blood Prince a WEEK before it was supposed to be released (some idiots fault) and instead of selling it on Ebay for a profit... She returned the book, saying, "I can just wait until Saturday." She was the only one who bought one, and they were quickly taken of the shelves right after that incident. lol
In my copy of the Prisoner of Azkaban, about half way through the book, theres a misspelling of Snape as 'Snap' and not just a faded 'e' (There's 1 space inbetween his name and the next word)... I wonder if it's worth anything?> lol
gmpilot
07-20-2005, 07:37 PM
Well...I've been scoping out some harry potter forums...and this is what I have about R.A.B. Somebody said there was apparently a locket in the Order's house (sirius' house) that nobody could open! Also, there is a Regulus Black who is mentioned a few times as being sirius' younger brother. He was apparently killed by Voldemort, but suspicious, isn't it? The black household w/ a unopenable locket + Regulus ___ Black = R.A.B.?! That's my thought for the moment, lol.
clone
07-20-2005, 10:33 PM
Good thinking. I hate when they introduce new mysteries at the END of books.
Oh come on lay off it, the story in the books of magic ARE nothing like harry potter at all, sure she migth have been inspired by the covers, or it migth just be a complete coincidence. The character portrayed as a looser with glasses IS NOTHING NEW, you find the same character in TONS of other stories about magic, monsters, and so on.
Based on that i wouldnt call it a rip off at all, before that series the books of magic were created there already were others wich just as similar character descriptions.
Try reading harder before you post. Tell me what's the big difference between Harry Potter and The Books of Magic, where a young kid who looks alarmingly like harry potter is shifted into the world of magic to learn his true traid in life.
As for the all around story, I blatantly stated I wasn't even talking about that. It's the Asthetics and premise I'm aruging. She ripped it off period. Imagine if the Books of Magic had come after Harry Potter. People would be screaming infringment of property and copyrights all over the place.
I realize that the character looks pretty similar, but I don't think that nerdy boys with glasses are really anything new for wizard stories. Gaiman was probably influenced by other stories in the past, as well. The actual stories aren't that similar even if the characters look the same (whether coincidentally or not).
Also, apparently Gaiman has already said he didn't really care about the issue, but some could say that was just because Warner Bros. (same company that did Harry Potter) bought movie options for the Books of Magic already. They probably just wanted to play it safe and not get sued even though Gaiman may not have even tried.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411185/
I found some weird page (pretty slanted though) that mentions a few of the plagiarism issues.
http://www.geocities.com/versetrue/rowling.htm
At this point though, the books have diverged quite a bit from really being anything to worry about. I've never been too interested in the stories, but my wife just finished reading it yesterday, so I've pretty much been hearing about it all day. :p She's still in the camp that thinks Snape is really a good guy who had to do what he did.
gmpilot
07-21-2005, 12:58 AM
Hooray for your wife. We both think the same thing, lol.
Krieock
07-21-2005, 07:13 AM
Snape may be on the good side... But I doubt whether Harry can ever forgive him for killing Dumbledore, I think Harry's gunna have to kill Snape for revenge.
Way to go on the info about the locket Gmpilot! Sounds pretty good.
You all keep talking about this "Book of Magic" thing... But I thought JKR was sued by some author who invented a character called Larry Potter and had similar adventures as Harry? :/
Jeanox
07-21-2005, 09:23 AM
This is so funny, because for over a year and a half, I have been saying "Snape kills Dumbledore!" to my friends whenever they read the book...you know...as a joke. And it actually ends up happening?!
Wow, this is twisted vindication or something. :)
flare60
07-21-2005, 10:10 AM
I feel sorry for Snape if anything, Dumbledore was the only one that even truly trusted Snape, and it wont suprise me that Snape dies saving Harry in one of the next books.
Krasnoznamonec
07-21-2005, 10:44 AM
I haven't read any of the books and only seen one movie but by what people are telling here i feel that this is StarWars rip off. Harry will turn to the dark side in the next book becouse of what he has seen and it turns out the guy with two faces was his father. Tum Tum Tum.
FreneticZombie
08-10-2005, 12:25 AM
I haven't read any of the books and only seen one movie but by what people are telling here i feel that this is StarWars rip off. Harry will turn to the dark side in the next book becouse of what he has seen and it turns out the guy with two faces was his father. Tum Tum Tum.
DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
GM: YAY! someone who agrees with me about Snape.
Trunx: Actually i'm of the opinion the HOGWARTS is the final horcrux.
ColdKodiak: You seem to have a personal vedetta against the books, and author. If this is true, why bother arguing about it? IMO, people only argue if they are not sure they are absolutely correct. people who know they are right don't bother to argue because there is no point. Unless of course they are...well....egotistical and...i dunno. I lost my train of thought. Anyways, whilst i like reading some of your other posts, i've decided to completely ignore anything you say about HP. ^^
McGarnacle
08-11-2005, 11:41 PM
I think Snape is still good. If you read over the parts in the book where it was hinting he was bad, you realise he doesn't show knowledge anything about the plans, he just pretends he does. By doing this he can figure out what Voldemorts plans were...and now, with the killing of Dumbledore, he's probably earned his trust with Voldemort, and may thwart his plans at the last moment...that's my two cents :thumbsup:
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