Go Back   Polykarbon Art Forum > GALLERY > Sketchbooks
Register FAQ Members List Arcade IRC Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2016, 11:47 AM   #561
astrapho
One of 'em crazies
 
astrapho's Avatar
Awards Showcase
Boss Battle Contest - Winner: 1st place - Issue reason: Beat the scariest boss into a pulp 1st Place:  - Issue reason: Over Dramatic Contest '10 1st Place:  - Issue reason: When Hell Freezes Over Contest '11 
Total Awards: 3
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: My room
Posts: 2,717
Send a message via Skype™ to astrapho
Default

Hey John, I think you should focus on modelling your volumes. there's nothing wrong with using the soft brushes, but you're not expressing the forms well with your rendering. How you choose to make your rendering is a consequence of expressing the form of your subject in accordance with the lighting using colors. Perhaps some tighter/photorealistic observational studies would help you understand how to express volume using values/color. If you don't understand how to do this no amount of tinkering with the tools will help. cheers
astrapho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2016, 11:32 AM   #562
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

Hi Astrapho, i'll try and do some studies with some shapes. The problem is indeed getting my head around lighting and rendering volumes properly. i really want to get my head around understanding natural environmental light that doesn't produce the hard shadows that the easy reference photos i use. i'm looking at other artists like yangfan and see if i can pick up any notable trends or observations.

The other problem is trying to get my head around how far the lights should go. Eg if there are 2 colored light sources, how far should the colored glow etc. its all about understanding distance of the light, the strength of the light, but how can i control it? I heard from variety of sources that you should divide the strength of the light by half over a certain distances but again baffling.

until that penny drops, i'm going to struggle to figure it out. might buy some modelling clay and see what happens when i place lights over it and render that or something.
__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2016, 04:11 PM   #563
astrapho
One of 'em crazies
 
astrapho's Avatar
Awards Showcase
Boss Battle Contest - Winner: 1st place - Issue reason: Beat the scariest boss into a pulp 1st Place:  - Issue reason: Over Dramatic Contest '10 1st Place:  - Issue reason: When Hell Freezes Over Contest '11 
Total Awards: 3
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: My room
Posts: 2,717
Send a message via Skype™ to astrapho
Default

Hey there. I asked Nathan Fowkes something like that once. His answer was that it depends on your scene! You are making art and while you need to respect and be aware of the physicality of what you're painting you must make it work for you. All that matters is that there is a constant gradual diminishing of the strength of the light, and for this you must pay careful attention. But as for how far it actually goes, you make a decision here according to what works better for the mood of the particular picture you're painting, and of course decide on a fall-off distance and strength that is believable for that particular light source (eg. your candlelight shouldn't cast stronger highlights than daylight ;P ).

For the natural environmental light, I suggest you to make some lighting studies but label each light source and its direction and figure out where the colors are coming from. Here is an example of one i did with lots of colored lights off a reference.
Spoiler:

I hope this answers your question!

Last edited by astrapho : 11-02-2016 at 04:31 PM.
astrapho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 08:10 AM   #564
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

Weekend practice. I did a quick practice on light sources and just taking my time thinking how things would look. Additionally trying a few blending ideas. Anatomy wasn't really the of this pic. its a good start, but i'll need more practice to reinforce what i've learnt. Some additional painting discipline couldn't hurt either.


edit: incidentally, no refs. Looking at it now i think i lost sight on which light was the primary source of light. Whether it sort of flip flopped throughout the 2 hour paint.

__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2016, 07:08 AM   #565
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

Weekend work. After passing my exam on thursday, i'm taking it easy and going back to studying art. i did do a few pieces for rendering and still not quite figured out a process that works for me.

Today, i wanted to investigate one of my banes of my life: attaching figures to figures. Everytime i draw legs, they're not properly attached and causes problems. I looked over a variety of stuff on pininterest and tried to cook up a strategy. I think i might be onto something but we'll see. Ideally if i can learn how to draw complex poses it will be a massive gain.

__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2016, 08:59 PM   #566
Grieverjoe
Ever Skyward
 
Grieverjoe's Avatar
Awards Showcase
Boss Battle - 3rd place:  - Issue reason: Popped a few potions and went on a rampage 
Total Awards: 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Memphis
Posts: 1,180
Default

I know Proko has been mentioned before, but if you're having trouble attaching things to other things, I suggest the mannequization video.
https://youtu.be/nRHfcqjbPq8
__________________
Artblog
Tumblr
DeviantART
Grieverjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 08:26 AM   #567
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

More weekend practice. this was a with a ref pic. Its still not finished, but its getting there. I had hoped to do things properly with logical order, steps etc, but the difficulty and frustration of the challenge made me snap and i just threw color where the hell i felt it needed it. No consistency on hue, brightness etc, blending is a bit of mess and i fell back to old methods and not learning anything new.

I'll try a few texture ideas near the end of the pic in the hopes i learn something.


__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 01:13 PM   #568
djizomdjinn
night painter
 
djizomdjinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,527
Default

Nice. A lot of improvement here in this last pic. Compared to your weekend no-ref study, the lines feel a lot more confident.
djizomdjinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 03:49 PM   #569
RobotCat
Best combination ever
 
RobotCat's Avatar
Awards Showcase
1st Place:  - Issue reason: Horror Fest '08 Phase 1 3rd Place:  - Issue reason: Horror Fest '08 Phase 2 
Total Awards: 2
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 3,593
Default

Can you post the reference too? I feel like you're shifting some of the features a bit in that you're observing and drawing them individually but on the overall placement they're just off bit a bit in different directions to look slightly off.
__________________
DeviantArt | Tumblr | Facebook
RobotCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 05:18 PM   #570
Grieverjoe
Ever Skyward
 
Grieverjoe's Avatar
Awards Showcase
Boss Battle - 3rd place:  - Issue reason: Popped a few potions and went on a rampage 
Total Awards: 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Memphis
Posts: 1,180
Default

Agree with what Cat said about the features, but I gotta say, the rendering on the left side of her face looks mighty tasty.
__________________
Artblog
Tumblr
DeviantART
Grieverjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 07:06 AM   #571
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

Hi Guys enclosed the link to the ref picture ishere. Suffice to say, comparing the ref and my image you can see why i was so disappointed.

If i was being brutally honest there are plenty of things i could nit pick with this picture but the ones that vex me the most are the simplest stuff like getting the jawline not being correct, the lips and nose not working out. If there was any small consolation, i learnt how to use a couple of different brushes which offered several possible solutions to texturing/blending at the same time.

For the sake of completion, here were the original lines. I erased some of the measurement lines and such before i went to painting. I made the basic mistake of doing this on the first layer and didn't realize until i finished the lines.




I was lucky enough to duplicate the layer and changed the fill to be blue. But my technique is usually to put the line work on the top, colors/flats on the back and than blend the lines away using multiple layers. But this wasn't an option this time.

Its at this point that i snapped.

The whole picture was going to hell anyway, i used a single layer over the top, the wet chalk brush and painted over the top, eye balling colors, ignored all rules on hue shifting properly and worked over it. I was however more mindful to use the soft brushes at lower opacity but caved in near the end. See above for where i got to.

Today was more refinement and trying to correct the glaring proportion issues (her jaw line was much larger in my pic) or just trying to render properly. The torso and necks, were a lost cause but did what i could to render them. Any though to render them like 3d shapes when out the window ages ago.

To finish off i played with the levels a bit and found it more to my liking to make it more shiny, even if it wasn't in the ref.

__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 12:36 PM   #572
Lamb
christmas squid
 
Lamb's Avatar
Awards Showcase
Boss Battle Contest - 2nd place:  - Issue reason: Had that cute crit glyph 1st Place:  - Issue reason: Hunters Contest '12 2nd Place:  - Issue reason: Over Dramatic Contest '10 2nd Place:  - Issue reason: LEGO Illustration Contest '11 
Total Awards: 4
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: in the <3 of Europe
Posts: 2,226
Send a message via ICQ to Lamb
Default

Write down everything you can see is wrong and try to do it again. But you have to write it down and keep it in front of you whilst doing the new version.

The colors and forms are really good man, just the placement of features is a bit off.
__________________

http://chronoray.tumblr.com/
Lamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 07:28 AM   #573
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

More weekend practice. i was trying a new process whereby you start the roughs with a soft brush and than render with hard brush afterwards to add details. (see here for a rough idea i was trying

i was reasonably impressed with the process and it was a lot of fun as i was able to get everything down very quickly. Additionally i could paint over the lines much sooner. Might try it again sometime.

__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2016, 03:36 PM   #574
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

More practice, more experimenting. I was testing the idea again about drawing the complete rough in one go. This time i used a different brush to draw something that was referenced but the pose was completely non referenced.

The picture is of an imperial soldier from valkyria chronicles. I was practicing drawing one before i tested doing something else. i had plans to develop my own imperial unit; the Reavers. The generic experimental elite unit cobbled together from all walks of life with no military backgrounds warped by ragnite experimentation and rigorous training and equipment.

i didn't finish it as i came across a few snags that made it difficult/ardious/tedious to correct compared to my original method of line art, clipping masks etc. I Felt i lost control of this picture, possibly because i went in far too tight right from the start. It didn't help that when i tried to correct areas or incorporate hard edges, i went back to what was like drawing line art, which begs the question, why not do that at the beginning?

Perhaps that's why the soft brush worked and i forgot to work on multiple layers? probably. maybe another shot at it tomorrow.

__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 05:42 AM   #575
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

More practice. I haven't done much reference studies lately and the more i try to push out to do something creative there are severe gaps in my knowledge.

Its a study of some armor, didn't copy the photo like for like as it was a quick study. Tried a bit of matte painting and the mixer brush to see what i could get out of that.

__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 10:32 PM   #576
Grieverjoe
Ever Skyward
 
Grieverjoe's Avatar
Awards Showcase
Boss Battle - 3rd place:  - Issue reason: Popped a few potions and went on a rampage 
Total Awards: 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Memphis
Posts: 1,180
Default

Hey, that's not bad at all. Looks like an old, rusty piece. Not bad at all.
__________________
Artblog
Tumblr
DeviantART
Grieverjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2016, 07:49 AM   #577
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

More weekend work and this time i might have chosen something a bit too difficult at my skill level for ref practice. There is still a fair few points in the drawing that i want to just give up on this and move on. But its half finished so we'll see how far i can go before i really throw in the towel.

__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 02:32 AM   #578
RobotCat
Best combination ever
 
RobotCat's Avatar
Awards Showcase
1st Place:  - Issue reason: Horror Fest '08 Phase 1 3rd Place:  - Issue reason: Horror Fest '08 Phase 2 
Total Awards: 2
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 3,593
Default

Your metal studies are turning out pretty well.
__________________
DeviantArt | Tumblr | Facebook
RobotCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 07:39 AM   #579
johnway
Master of rubbish art.
 
johnway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: chelmsford (UK)
Posts: 3,029
Default

Hi Robocat thanks to the reply. Tbh i feel like i'm struggling to understand it. At the moment i'm just painting where the color was. Part of the problem is perhaps its a photo and i don't understand the form and how it works. I had hoped spending nearly 10 minutes staring at the pic i might have understood it. but i'm just plowing through it in the hopes that i come out a better person doing it.

Below is the current status of the pic. Still more work like details need to be done, I need to adjust the position of the arm a bit and sort out that background so that i can tighten the edges for the person. I might work through it this week as i hope to move onto another pic over christmas. i don't want a ref pic to be my main project for the holidays...


__________________
Thought of the day:

"Life is one great journey. Shame about the destination"
johnway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2016, 02:16 PM   #580
djizomdjinn
night painter
 
djizomdjinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,527
Default

I've noticed that in some of your work, when you stop thinking in paint (light volumes) and start thinking in line, you switch to pure white and pure black outlines and highlights, which are often too harsh for the image. Try having a dedicated dark color that isn't black in order to lessen the outline effect, and only use black as a conscious choice to draw the eye.

Metal reflections look lovely by the way.
djizomdjinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.